Phil Edgar-Jones on Supporting the Next Generation of Creative Talent

Breaking into the creative industries has never been easy. 

But for many young artists, musicians, performers and filmmakers, the financial barriers are becoming higher than ever. 

In the latest episode of The MarshyCast, I caught up with Phil Edgar-Jones, Director of Sky Arts and Trustee of The Sky Foundation, to discuss why talented people are increasingly being priced out of pursuing careers in the arts. 

We talked about how the industry has changed over recent years. Rising living costs, training expenses and the realities of freelance creative work mean that many aspiring artists face significant financial hurdles before they've even had the chance to prove themselves. 

That's where the Julia Rausing Sky Arts Bursaries come in. 

Phil explained how the scheme is designed to support emerging creative talent, helping people with genuine ability overcome some of the financial obstacles that might otherwise prevent them from achieving their ambitions. 

Of course, I couldn't resist pointing out that receiving a bursary still requires one very important thing... talent. Unfortunately for me, that probably rules me out! 

Humour aside, the conversation highlighted just how important initiatives like these are for ensuring that creativity isn't limited by someone's financial circumstances. 

Whether your passion is music, acting, film, writing or another artistic discipline, it's a reminder that investing in future talent benefits all of us. 

🎧 You can hear the full conversation now on The MarshyCast, available on Apple, Spotify and wherever you get your podcasts. 

Find me on all social media @paulswampymarsh

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:13

Is talent enough to make it in the creative industries anymore? On this episode of The Marchie Cast, I'm joined by Phil Edgar Jones, Director of Skynet Art and trustee of the Sky Foundation. We discuss why so many talented young creatives are finding it harder than ever to break into the industry, how rising costs are creating new barriers, and how the Julia Rousing Sky Arts burstaries are helping the next generation turn their passion into a career. The only catch, you have to have talent as well, which sadly counts me out. It's Paul Marsh, and I'm delighted to be joined by the Sky Narts director and trustee of the Sky Foundation, Phil Edgar Jones. Phil, how are you, sir? Very good. Thank you very much for having me along today. So the last time we spoke around about two years ago, just over two years ago, was just before Twisters came out for Daisy. We'd both seen it and we both said how fantastic it was, but we obviously had no idea. I think we can call ourselves tastemakers because it was a phenomenal success.

SPEAKER_01 1:20

Well, that's nothing to do with me, so I just I just liked it.

SPEAKER_00 1:24

Well, I'd like to think that you know, by people continually saying they like things, more people will go and see them.

SPEAKER_01 1:30

You know, that's how influencers work, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 1:33

Is that what we are now? We're influencers.

SPEAKER_01 1:35

You've got to say these things to more and more people. Yeah. I mean end up liking it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:40

Well, let's see if we can do our job with this one as well, because uh we are gonna be talking about the fact that future dance stars are being priced out of the industry because of fears of the uh the next generation of talent not coming through.

SPEAKER_01 1:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:54

I think is this a new thing, Phil? Because I think throughout sort of as long as I can remember, you know, you look at the people that come from money and and you know, the mums and dads have money to send people to school, and the lower classes maybe not getting those opportunities.

SPEAKER_01 2:11

Well, do you know I think it's a it's problematic in many ways. So we've we did a bit of a survey uh around this actually, and and there's a significant number of people like um 60% of people believe the of the next generation that are coming through believe that dance is just too expensive for them to take part in. We noticed as well that since 2019, sort of the back of the pandemic, that about uh the number of people going into dance and choreographers have fallen by a third, which is in terms of sort of overall art sector, which is quite a significant percentage in relation to you know other disciplines. So we we don't completely know 100% why this is happening. I think certainly expense is an issue. You know, dance is kind of uniquely expensive in many ways. You you you need a venue to dance in. If you're just doing it just beyond you know your TikTok videos, in your venue to dance in, you need special clothes, you need you know music, you need maybe other people to dance with, you need a sprung floor. Um, there's all sorts of added expenses, travel around the place, all sorts of added expenses that that make it kind of harder at that sort of entry level as well. And then I think sometimes it's the case that in dance organizations around the country there are again, I think uh pegging it back to maybe of the back end of the pandemic because that's the length of our survey, is that there are fewer opportunities in dance organizations because you know, you see there's a whole kind of vicious line of things or a circle or whatever. You know, audiences aren't coming uh uh coming back to the theatre in the way that you might imagine. You know, there are people are booking really late for everything. So uh arts organizations and dance organizations are one of them. They they take fewer risks with the productions they put on, which has this sort of trickle-down effect to taking fewer risks on people. So there's there's sort of lots of unifying factors in a way that come together in a perfect storm to make it make it make it kind of much harder, which is why we're launching this uh initiative today. And I think I think also the you know there's a cost of living crisis, there's you know, money's tight for everybody, uh education, arts, education, and uh schools, and that includes dance amongst many other things, music and uh the visual arts, etc., isn't as um prioritized as it might be. And so all these things kind of fall by the wayside as people uh you know um prioritize other things, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 4:34

I think life has changed a hell of a lot in the last five or six years, hasn't it? For every single one of us, coming off of the back of COVID and the lockdowns, and then obviously with the wars going on everywhere and and all of the prices shooting up through the roof. This is this is choices that everybody have to make everybody every single day about you know putting fuel in the car, eating, then going out to shows. You know, my children they do this, but then they also want to do this as well. We've all got to choose these things every day, and it is getting tougher and tougher. My own personal experience, my daughter who's 13, uh, she does horse riding, but she also did acting and dancing for a while as well. And it got to that point where we we had to sort of ask her to we had to ask her to make a choice, and she and she chose horse riding, and you know, she still does stuff with the school and other bits and pieces, but we had to remove her from like the private one because of because of money.

SPEAKER_01 5:31

I think that's right. I think if you're you're making tough choices in in life, and that's why you know we teamed up with the Julia Rousing Foundation for this initiative, and they're a philanthropic arts organization that was set up by the late Julia Roising and our or Hans Rousing in in memory of our late his late wife Julia, who was a tremendous supporter of the arts. So they've provided a significant amount of funding for this initiative, and we're providing the sort of means to do it, if you like, through the Sky Foundation. Uh, and so I can tell you a bit about it because I think for us, you can do what you can do, right? So you know they we can't force the government to fund the arts over defense. We can't we we can't make those choices for them. So as a as a kind of you know, now a charitable organization, we can put some m serious money into helping uh our emerging artists in this field. So the the initiative allows for 20 dancemakers, and that's people who are kind of more choreographers, you're creating pieces, not just someone like me dancing in their bedroom to terrible music. Um the people who are actually going to create a piece of work and may have had some background in this as well. So they get 30,000 pounds sort of living wage really to live off for a year. So that helps pay the rent and you know the bills put put food on the table, etc. And then access to a 40,000 pound fund to help create their piece. So, you know, it again all that stuff of bringing uh uh a dance production together is it's not it's lumpy, you know, it's expensive. It needs it needs properly funding, and you need the time to do it, you need the resources to do it. And then, of course, one of the other things I think beyond money is uh access, right? So your foot in the door, if you like. So, you know, seeing is believing, isn't it? You you know, I think a lot of people think, oh this is not for me, it's not somewhere, not somewhere I could get to. This door is closed to me. So we're part of the job of this is to open doors around the country as well for people. So we've partnered very noisy out there, something like we've partnered with lots and lots of um uh dance organizations across England, Scotland, Northern Ireland, Wales, who will provide mentoring, who provide a base for people, a bit of that sort of back office support as well. So it's it's that foot in the door, it's a bit about resourcing, and it's a bit about just having that time and space to do your work.

SPEAKER_00 7:47

Is it also a case of for anybody who is coming from a lower class class background, having some idols also to think that I can do this, this isn't out of my reach at all.

SPEAKER_01 8:01

Do you know I think that's I think that's right. I think it's you know, if you can see it, you can be it. I mean that's that's evident, isn't it? And that's what that's what sort of diversity uh in all these forums is all about. And I think in particular, uh we've got a big job to do with uh, you know, people who are maybe from lower socioeconomic backgrounds who don't have the advantages, who don't have the cash, you don't have sort of parents who are in those worlds, you know, to give them sight of those kind of things. So I think that's why we we're inviting, you know, any anyone to apply, really, who's got uh a talent for it. Of course, you've got to have you got you gotta have ability as well. You know, we we trade in excellence, we don't just want sort of you know you look at me, Phil, when you say that, don't you?

SPEAKER_00 8:43

I know I know what you're getting at. I know what you're getting at.

SPEAKER_01 8:46

Well I don't know. If you saw me dance, you'd probably run, run, run screaming for the help. So so uh, you know, so it's the the website open, the applications open today, they're open to the 9th of September. So there's a good sort of month to you know get your ducks in a row and and and apply for it. We really encourage people to have a look and uh and and and and you know come and give it a go, really.

SPEAKER_00 9:11

I think the one thing that we certainly deal with here is you know, we we want people to be inspired. You know, we we we've got a fantastic city in Portsmouth here, we've got some fantastic theatres and dance groups and everything. We want people to be inspired. We don't want people to think, you know, our local theatres, as much as as amazing as they are, by the way, we don't want them to think that they are the ceiling. You know, once you've reached there, that is it, you can't go any further. We want people to think that, you know, once you once you've done this, once you've reached this level, you can go on to the next stage. You can go on to London and New York and wherever else it is and make a name for yourself, doing something that you truly, truly love, and there are people there to help you along the way.

SPEAKER_01 9:51

Yeah, that's right. And there are there's surprising how many opportunities there are, and that's it's up to us, I think, to try and help in the privileged position we're in with our contacts that we've got to help open those doors for people.

SPEAKER_00 10:03

Is this something that you've uh encountered quite a lot? People that you've maybe spoken to that either from one way or the other have said, I came from this direction and I had help with this, or that you've met people that said, I would have loved to have done this, but there was nobody there to help me.

SPEAKER_01 10:20

Yeah, I mean, I think, I mean, obviously, look, I I I I I'm kind of very lucky. I run the Sky Arts channel, I do I work in TV. I I I'm mostly meeting people who are pretty successful and and and often who have come from from not very much. I mean, I started in TV, I didn't have a family who were who were in any way, shape, or form involved in this medium. I sort of came down to London to try and find a job and and kind of met some people who fell into it and kind of got into it that way. So I was very, very lucky and I'm very keenly aware of that. And you know, that's that's and most of the people I work with are keenly aware of it, and we feel it's our job to try and reach those people who, a bit like us, didn't think it was something that was possible to do, but you know, uh you know you know it can show them that there are pathways through it.

SPEAKER_00 11:08

Yeah, well, I mean, I not not the same, but I worked in construction for 20 years before I found myself in radio. So again, you know, I want it to be clear that if you if you truly want something enough, there are ways of doing it. If people maybe want to find out a little bit more about this pathway, what's the best way for them to do that, Phil?

SPEAKER_01 11:27

So we've got a uh I've got a web address here for you, which is long and I might have to spell it. It's the Julia Rousing SkyArtsbursaries.com. That's where to sort of head for us. So Julia, as in Julia the name, Rousing R-A-U-S-I-N-G SkyArts, pretty simple spell, bursaries.com. So that's where we'd like people to head.

SPEAKER_00 11:49

I'll tell you what we'll do. We'll we'll get that link and we'll put it on all of our socials and our bits and pieces as well. So people want to click on that link, they can do that directly. Phil, it's always a joy to talk to you. Thank you so much for talking to me. Uh, hopefully, we'll talk again in another few years about something else amazing because I always love talking to you as well.

SPEAKER_01 12:07

We're always up to something.

SPEAKER_00 12:08

So thank you for having us. Enjoy the rest of your day, Phil.

SPEAKER_01 12:11

All the best of you. Cheers. Bye bye.